From - Fri Aug 31 11:32:23 2001 From: Downtuit@aol.com (Elaine) Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration Subject: Re: Argument Against Mass 3rd World Immigration Date: 31 Aug 2001 03:15:48 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 177 Message-ID: References: <7abcdd0c10a62e23025ef4c74c1cf75b@anonymous.poster> <9m4amq$5kr$1@gail.ripco.com> <3B8A440A.F6A7D183@clark.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.131.205.240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 999252948 10429 127.0.0.1 (31 Aug 2001 10:15:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:15:48 GMT Path: vienna7.his.com!news.lightlink.com!skynet.be!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: vienna7.his.com alt.politics.immigration:175403 Tiny Human Ferret wrote in message news:<3B8A440A.F6A7D183@clark.net>... > Elaine wrote: > > > > "Steve from Colorado \(STVFRMCO\)" wrote in message news:... > > > > > First, I should apologize. I was being sarcastic about learning to > > speak Mexican. Sort of. I do believe if we rely on our government to > > halt the invasion we will most definitely be speaking Mexican. I do > > not believe our government has any intentions of halting it. And > > neither do I believe it is inevitable the invasion must continue. I > > do believe it can be halted, but will require the banding together of > > American citizens in a unified effort outside government channels to > > insure our soverignity. Civil war would suggest Americans fighting > > Americans. In this case we will be fighting alien invaders, but > > without the blessing of our government. > > > > > They have no right to invade our countries. If this invasion were > > happening anywhere else in the world, Kuwait, for example, the US > > would be on the door step fighting off the invading country. Which > > brings me up to another question I have had: Which of these aliens > > moving to the US, either permanantly or as temporary labor, are going > > to volunteer if/when the next Desert Storm occurs? > > I think that the US is in the present bind with regard to massive illegal > immigration mostly because of the NATO actions in Kosova. You see, the exact > same thing happened in the rump Jugoslaviya as is happening here. A > victimized population under a despotic regime voted with their feet, and > over a generation very large numbers of ethnic Albanians wound up settling > in Kosova. The Serbian majority there became the minority. But as this > occurred, they neither stopped the emigration -- Albania was nominally > allied with the Red Chinese and Jugoslaviya was dominated by the USSR, > politically the leadership of the USSR found it useful to demonstrate the > inferiority of the Chinese interpretation of Communism by showing that it > led to deterioration, demonstrated by the refugees -- _nor_ did they provide > anything resembling welcome or egalitarianism for the refugee Albanian > ethnics. It's in this last aspect that the US' present situation differs > from that of Jugoslaviya. We've gone out of our way to try to include the > Mexican immigrants, and all of the other immigrants as well, whether they > have arrived legally or illegally. Instead of a truly oppressive legal > imposition as seen in Kosova, there are very minimalistic legal deterrents > to massive illegal immigration into the US. > The relaxed nature of our immigration policies is one of the foundation stones of being American. Americans as a whole tend to be very broad minded in accepting other cultures in their midst, more so as compared to other countries. I disagree with your statement that American acceptance of immigrants is the only difference in your above example. The Albanians were fleeing oppression and victimization. You cannot turn on the TV without seeing a story about milliions of refugees, or "immigrants", fleeing from one place to another any night of the week. The key difference between those people and Mexicans is that Mexicans are not fleeing any kind of life threatening circumstances. They are reclaiming what they believe to be their land. > But the Serbs in Kosova finally decided that since the illegal Albanian > ethnics weren't being persuaded to not come or to leave, they were going to > make them go. In my opinion, if they had simply rounded them up and tossed > them out of the country, sold their properties at fair prices, and delivered > the proceeds to the Kosovar Albanians, there would have been no NATO > involvement, and no US involvement. But instead, the Serbs engaged in some > mass murders, and applied rape of non-combatants as an instrument of > state-sponsored terrorism, and they evicted all Kosovars based on their > ethnicity rather than on the basis of nationality or citizenship. This is > so objectionable that NATO and the US had to be involved. To perhaps oversimplify, have we all not had a time when a guest overstayed thier welcome and had to be made to leave? I think the concept of rounding them up, selling their property and sending them back to Mexico with their money is a wonderful idea. In fact, if Americans just absolutely insist they cannot get along without wetback labor, maybe the immigration reform could include something like this: First, round up all the illegals already here. They go back. We do not want them. The first thing they did in our country was violate federal laws. None of them have had background checks or health examinations. We don't need any more AIDS cases, TB, or other diseases, up here, either. Let American employers who insist on use of Mexicans send the paycheck to the Mexican government instead of the Mexican employee. Let the Mexican government pay their citizen who is here only for temporary labor. Let the Mexican government disburse the pay to the Mexican citizens. Let the Mexican government devise a way for its citizen to have benefits and health insurance, in fact require it for the duration of the visit to the US. Let's limit the time any "guest worker" can stay in the US to, oh say, 5 years. Then they have to go home, and new ones can come in. Have laws that state Mexican citizens may not purchase real estate in the US. Put the burden on the Mexican government to get its citizens health examinations and immunizations before they allow their citizens to move to the US. Put the burden on the Mexican government to teach its citizens to speak the English language before they send them here. Look at all the jobs that would create in Mexico, Mr. Fox. Look at the wealth that would be distributed all over Mexico. But I don't think temporary anything is what Mexicans have on their minds. > > And the US is reluctant to deal with the problem of 10 millions illegal > Mexicans in the US, because if it were to do anything the slightest bit > outside of perfect propriety, with every legal precedent NATO or the UN > could declare the US in need of a police action, and most US citizens would > not be very happy with seeing UN troops in the US, forcibly disarming and > perhaps imprisoning anyone who supported ongonig forceful removals of > illegal aliens. > You do have a valid point about NATO and the UN being called in for police action. And US citizens would not appreciate it a great deal. It would not be pretty to say the least. No revolution is ever tea at the palace. But they happen all the time. Of course, for any part of this scenario to take place the American people would first have to grow enough cajones to put down the remote control, and the crack pipe, and get off the couch for a change; the same reasons we Americans can't harvest our own crops, wash our own dishes or build our own roads. > > > > I completely agree it is time to become xenophobic. The Mexican > > invaders are openly talking about elimination of the white population > > in North America. > > Really? Which Mexicans are talking in such a way? > OK. Maybe "elimination" is too strong of a word. But they are openly talking of reclaiming the entire southwestern US for their own. It is their land, and we stole it from them, or didn't you know? They are talking about reclaiming all the territory they have sold or ceded since the arrival of Cortez! We are talking about half of Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, all of New Mexico, Arizona, California and Nevada, and parts of Utah. That only comprises, what, about 25% of our country? Then consider the population density of Mexico is nearly double that of the entire US. Add to that the fact that they are reproducing at something like a ration of 3:1 compared to white people. You tell me where "gringos" are headed. Here are some links that address the above: http://www.aztlan.net/ www.americanpatrol.com/RECONQUISTA/aztlanwarmap.html http://www.mexica-movement.org/A1.html http://www.diversityalliance.org/docs/article_secede_000308.html (I especially chuckle about this article) http/www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23967 The Pope is even worried about it: http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/01/21/p1s3.htm And if you have any doubts as to the progress of the Mexican invasion here is yet another link for you: http://www.aztlan.net/newaztlan.gif > > The southern US is only the beginning. And I do > > not believe we should be depending on our government to resolve the > > issue. It is our government that has led us to this pass. I believe > > it is going to require more definitive and assertive action on behalf > > of the citizens. A violent response to the invasion, if necessary. > > But I also do not perceive the American citizens to be capable of > > rising to this current challenge, once again eliciting the notion that > > we should begin our Mexican language lessons. > > Oh, we will need to speak Spanish in any case. To fail to understand your > enemy is to assure that they will have spies within your camp, but you will > have no spies within their camps. Oh es verdad nosotros si todo aprende hablar a mejicano. Hablo a mejicano. usted? Agradezca los cielos que el mejicano es demasiado estúpido aprender inglés. I learned to talk spic when I was a kid, and have used it to my advantage all my life. Ironically, I first learned it so I could accomodate the poor, abused wetbacks and ease their way in a strange culture. Little did I know..... And yes, I still believe it is going to require drastic measures to stop this invasion. And I agree with most of what you have said, and that US government has postured itself incapable and uninterested in the assault on America, and I agree the American citizens definitely are not up for what it would take to halt the Mexican invasion. Personally, I just wish they were because the alternative does not look any better. I really don't want to live in Mexico.